For this post, the first person to post should answer the question directly. THEN ALL SUBSEQUENT POSTS should address something written by a previous "poster." In other words, if Jimmy is the first to post, he will write his thoughts about the question directly. If Jane is the second to post, she must respond to something that Jimmy said. Then when Bobby posts third, he can respond to either Jimmy or Jane; and so forth. Here is the prompt, from the Reader's Guide in the back of the "Major Motion Picture" edition:
"'Miz Rain say we is a nation of raped children, that the black man in America today is the product of rape.' What does Ms. Rain mean by the metaphor, and does it strike you as an accurate one?"
Blogger Buzz: Introducing Backlinks
15 years ago
When Ms. Rain says that the black man today is the product of rape I believe she has a double meaning to this statement. She says this to highlight the fact that often during the time of slavery many black women were raped by their white masters and this resulted in the birth of many biracial children. These biracial children often had lighter skin than the other black slaves. As a result of this they were often treated differently than the darker colored slaves. The white masters gave the light skinned slaves special privileges and the dark sinned slaves envied these lighter skinned slaves. Another part to her meaning of the statement is that she is not just using the word rape to literally mean rape but also to signify abuse in general. All throughout America’s history blacks have been deprived of certain rights that are given only to whites, thereby alienating them from the rest of society. That is why often those blacks that were product of rape and who had lighter skin would try, and sometimes succeed in passing themselves off as white. That way they were not discriminated against and would receive the same privileges as whites. This is similar to how Precious feels alienated from society due to the rape/abuse she received in her home, and why she often throughout the book states that she wishes she were white. That is why I do believe that Ms. Rain’s statement is an accurate one.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Bakari that Ms. Rain's words have multiple interpretations and that she is most likely referencing the rape and discrimination that has plagued the descendants of slavery throughout American history. However, because she says that "we is a nation of raped children," I believe that her statement is not race or gender specific and can be broadened to include Precious's entire generation. It does not merely encapsulate the condition of African Americans. If we define rape as "to seize, take, or carry off by force," instead of "to force to have sexual intercourse," (Dictionary.com) then I think Ms. Rain might mean that today's youth are deprived of childhoods and forced to grow up too fast. Precious and her classmates are made to confront difficult issues and face harsh realities at a very young age. None of these girls voluntarily gave up their rights to be a kid. In a way, they were raped of their childhoods.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Bakari. I think Ms. Rain is talking about how black people were raped during times of slavery. A simple definition of rape is the act of being taken advantage of, and during slavery blacks lost many things because of the "rape" they endured. They were unrightfully taken from their homeland in Africa, treated as property, and forced to forget their history and conform to a new lifestyle. Over the years, blacks gained more and more rights, but the effects slavery and segregation can still be seen in society today. Animosity amongst races, project housing, whites dominating the suburbs and minorities the urban areas are just a few examples of the effects of slavery and segregation. The rape that caused such problems is the reason why kids like Precious lived the life they lived, a life of few privileges and deprived childhood. And this is why Ms. Rain says “we is a nation of raped children [and] that the black man in America today is the product of rape.”
ReplyDeleteI agree with both Bakari and Olivia. It is obvious that Ms. Rain is talking literally about times of slavery and the rape that went on between the black slave women and the white masters, but at the same time, as Olivia mentioned there is a deeper analysis to be made of what Miz Rain says. When she says “we is a nation of raped children,” she does not specify who the we is. I believe that she is not just talking about just black people but people of all different races. The rape that she mentions is not necessarily sexual abuse but rather people being forced to go in directions and do certain things in life which they wouldn’t necessarily do if they had the choice. When she says this in the book, I think she is talking about people being raped of certain opportunities, not just based on their race but also on their gender, age, and social status. In the book this “rape” Ms. Rain speaks of is portrayed through Precious both literally and metaphorically, and also through the other girls in the class metaphorically. I believe that the statement Ms. Rain makes is an accurate one.
ReplyDeleteI also agree with Bakari and Olivia. To me it is pretty clear that she is referring to the rape that many black women during slavery were subjected to by their masters. I also think that the statement in itself is one that is intended to be interpreted differently by different people. I think that when Ms Rain says that "the black man is the product of rape" she is saying that America has in some ways stripped the identity and self worth of African Americans by not only, as Ryan said, forcing them from their homes and making them leave any cultural identity and heritage behind, but also by casting black people off as the lesser race. In Precious's case, this "rape" has taken a direct toll on her view of herself and her self-hatred, not only because of the abuse she has gone through but because society is telling her that she isn't pretty enough because of the way that she looks. Precious's desire to be lighter and thinner is a result of only certain types of beauty being portrayed in the media, that do not necessarily relate to the African American community. In this way the black community is being raped of their self worth by constantly being shown that they are not good enough, pretty enough, etc. I agree that Ms Rain's statement is accurate.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Olivia, if it is determined as the definition "to seize" then Ms Rain would be referring to how not just black people were treated but also how the black women were treated as a gender during the generations. Black women were not treated well by the black males, white males and white women. The women were treated badly by the black men and worse by the white men and the white men did not recognize them as people. They were treated with less respect in reference to white women. Ms Rain's statement is correct
ReplyDeleteLike many others I do believe that the statement made by Ms. Rain is digging deep and forcing people to think back to the times off slavery and realize that they wouldnt even be hre if it wasnt for someone being raped physically. Also that they wouldnt be in theses situations or life styles if there elders werent raped of their pride,dignity or heritage. The abuse has been passed down from generations in different ways and now Precious is bearing the pain and struggle that others have as in African Americans went through. Precious has been effected by different types of rape or abuse and it is really taking toll on her succes in life. Her own family abuses and rapes her and she is also raped of her self esteem and pride because of her shape and the fact that she isnt beautiful in the eyes of society. So yes Ms Rain's statement strikes me as an accurate one because in different ways rape has helped shape and form our nation and the people in it.
ReplyDeleteI agree with both Bakari as well as Olivia. Both statements are equally correct and have multiple facts to back up their opinions. However, Olivia makes a good point when she says, “I think Ms. Rain might mean that today’s youth are deprived of childhoods and forced to grow up to fast.” Childhood is often paired with the words, innocence and purity. In Precious’ case, this so called innocence and purity is taken away from her at an extremely young age because what Ms. Rain claims "as a nation of raped children."
ReplyDeleteI also think that Tiffany makes a good point that the word, rape, in this novel can be preceived with several different things along the lines of gender, age, and social status. Therefore, I believe Ms. Rain's statement is accurate.
Bakari and Olivia mentioned that Miz Rains words can have multiple meanings, and Olivia went further realizing that rape can also have multiple definitions; therefore, Miz Rain's statement is very ambiguous. I agree with Olivia that the statement is not a hundred percent race specific, and that it applies to the nation as a whole. However, when I read the passage I thought of the other definition of rape; "to force to have sexual intercourse," (Dictionary.com). I took Miz Rains quote very literally when I first read it considering Precious' situation, but after reading Olivia's response I realize that Miz Rain may have been using the first definition of rape Olivia provided. My opinion differs from both Bakari’s and Olivia’s. I don’t think that Miz Rain have one set definition of “rape” or expected everyone to take her statement in the same direction. I think that Miz Rain’s statement has different meanings for all of her students depending on personal situations. I think some students who have experienced rape as forceful sexual intercourse would take her statement that way, but students who have been robbed of anything in their lives, for example being “raped” of their childhood, the example used in Olivia’s response, would take the statement that way. Although the definition of rape is very vague, I think in any situation the metaphor is saying that Precious’s generation is troubled.
ReplyDeleteIn response to Rachel's thoughts on Bakari's and Olivia's passages, I agree with Rachel that Miz Rain's words can be taken as a generalization to characterize Precious' generation. As problems in American society are extremely prevalent, I understood Miz Rain's use of the word "rape" to signify struggles and hardships that her students underwent in their lifetimes, and I believe that that specific group of students is again a different generalization for American society. In addition to this generalization to American society, (and modern worldly society, in fact) I also agree with the others that the term "rape" has especially significant meaning to black culture due to the hardships suffered by slaves decades ago for no reason other than a shade of their skin tone. Miz Rain's short statement touches upon many sensitive topics of abuse and unfair treatment that are present today.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Ariel's thought that Miz Rain is speaking about Precious' generation in terms of the "rape" they have experienced. As said previously, the term "rape" is ambiguous. I took it not to only mean the obvious,"to force to have sexual intercourse," (Dictionary.com), as Rachel stated, but to "to seize, take, or carry off by force," (Dictionary.com). Using this definition, I concluded that Miz Rain was addressing the many struggles the her students and their generation went through. These struggles were mainly a result of a neglectful society which stripped them of opportunities that she thought they deserved to take advantage of. I also agree that Miz Rain could have been speaking to the "rape" experienced by slaves, which Ariel stated. The fact that women were taken advantage of in such a harsh way speaks to neglectfulness of society in that time. Either way, Miz Rain is commenting on the neglect faced by a generation which she, through the word "rape", expresses as an unfortunate and horrid reality.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Olivia and Quiana in terms of the ambiguity of the word "rape". In terms of the literal definition of rape, as previously mentioned by Bakari and Ryan, white slave owners commonly raped and impregnated black slaves. To the white man, black slaves were not people, but property. The victims of rape were stripped of their identities and control over their own bodies. Thus, further generations of biracial black children were born into a world of hatred and inequality. The black youth of America were figuratively raped by the injustices of society. On the streets of Harlem, Precious and the other girls in the class are either exposed to or have experience first hand rape, violence, teen pregnancy, motherhood, drugs, gangs, abuse, etc. These girls were born into an unforgiving world, where they are stripped of their innocence. Olivia said it best, "None of these girls voluntarily gave up their rights to be a kid. In a way, they were raped of their childhoods." I believe that Ms. Rain's statement is accurate both literally according to history, but also figuratively in the loss of youthful innocence.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Olivia in the sense that rape could mean various things. In a small spectrum, rape could just mean rape. Used here by Miz Rain, in the broad spectrum of things, it could be (or is) used in the sense that any ill treatment towards people who are different or in the way in something casual in America, especially for the black man. Even for those who are not "different" or "in the way", America, its people, leaders, media, etc, effects our growth and life in some way.
ReplyDeleteThe word rape is ambiguous and it can be interpreted in numerous ways, i agree with that statement. I want to hone in on something that Chris said when referring to the word "rape" in a figurative sense. It is not the first thing that comes to my mind when i think of rape, but i found his point interesting. His depiction of the "black youth being raped by the injustices of society is quite accurate. Harlem, is the perfect example of a place where the black youth of the community are raped in the sense that they are neglected and deprived of stability in their childhood and adolescence and forced to grow up too quickly. Chris gave many specific examples of ways that the youth are pushed out of the years reserved for being protected and for being nurtured. Precious grows up literally being raped; also figuratively raped because of the damage to her childhood. She and the other girls in her class have little insight to a world without corrupt childhoods.
ReplyDelete